Behind the scenes at the Church and State Summit: Our Politicians are FAILING us

Behind the scenes at the Church and State Summit: Our Politicians are FAILING us
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The following is a transcript of Topher’s interview with Stephen Chavura at The Church and State Summit from Episode 87 of The Aussie Wire News  , which aired on the 14th of March 2024.

Topher: One of my favourite things about coming to places like Church and State at The Summit in Brisbane is the fact that I know I’m going to see Stephen Chavura. He is one of my favourite people to talk to, debate with and to get into some serious conversation with. He’s also a snappy dresser which really annoys me cuz I show up in Sloppy Joe’s in a T-shirt and he’s dressed well. Anyways, Stephen good to see you again. We’re here at the seventh Church and State Summit, a lot of people kind of say “well, what’s the point? We’re at the seventh one, where have we changed the world?” What’s going on here? What’s the value in an event like this from your perspective?

Stephen: The value is always getting people together who can make change, getting them to talk to one another, network with one another. So that’s a very important thing. You and I would not have met if it wasn’t for these kinds of events and then also just informing people at thegrassroots level in terms of what’s going on in the world and in Australia.

Telling them what MP’s, what politicians, are on the side of good what ones are not on the side of good, and just getting them to make a more informed vote and so and no single conference is itself going to make the big difference but over a long period of time, things do change. 

Topher: Let’s talk about change because you said you know there are some politicians on the side of good and some who are not. Our culture has rejected the idea of God, so how do we know what’s good and what’s not?

Stephen: I think most people have a basic idea of what is good and what is evil because when evil happens to them, they know it and I think at a macro societal level when the influence particularly of Christianity starts to recede into the background, it’s not that people suddenly stop knowing what is good and what is bad and even to some extent what is real in terms of biology and that kind of thing but what happen is what they know is much more easily undermined and destabilised because it’s not really anchored to anything firm. In the history of Christianity, we know what is good, we know what is evil, but that’s also anchored to Revelations, anchored to the Bible and when you take away that cultural anchor, it’s kind of drifting there and it can last for a while just drifting there.

But then there are always alternative views and points of views that start to push it one way or the other. I think that’s where we are right now.

Topher: In Marxism they had the Rules for Radicals etc. They had this idea of the long March through the institutions and taking a really a multi-decadal view of their mission, which was to bring in Marxism culturally and then politically as well. Arguably, they’ve been quite successful in that.

Do you believe that there is a counter March necessary and we reverse their tactics? Or should there be a different tactical approach?

Stephen: I think we need a tactic and the obvious thing that might first come to mind is that we need to sort of take back the institution. Sort of our own Long March. A view that some of our institutions can’t be redeemed anymore. For example, the universities, my opinion of the universities is that they cannot be brought back to sanity. They just need to collapse under the weight of their own irrationality and that’s kind of what’s happening a lot. What do I think we need to do well? I absolutely think we need to be electing good people to stand as MP’s, not just in camera and not just in the state level but also representatives at the council level.

I also think I’m a big believer in this rather than trying to transform the whole media, rather than try to transform the schools and the universities we start our own stuff. That is exactly what we’ve been doing we’ve been starting our own schools, we’ve been starting our own home schools we’ve been starting our own universities and starting our own alternative media and I mean I’m speaking to someone who embodies everything that I’m talking about, you can sort of spend your whole life saying “oh the mainstream media is horrible we need to change it” what we what can we do and basically being completely ineffective or you can get up and start your own thing that’s what you’ve done. That’s what others have done and I’m actually a big believer in basically just starting up new stuff which is what happened in the history of Christianity. Monasteries were started, they invented the modern University they started hospitals and that’s we’re in an age now.

We’re in a kind of age where of ruins of the ruins of a former great civilisation and we just need to start again and that’s why one of the great things that came out of Covid was this whole alternative media just rose up and that was I think one of the most exciting things of that three years.

Topher: You’ve given me way too many threads that I want to pull on so I’m going to go right back to the early part of your answer talking about universities. I’m wholeheartedly on board, institution bashing when it comes to education. I was homeschooled way before it was cool before Covid. When I was a kid I was homeschooled, I’m all about it but I will say I don’t want to walk across a bridge that wasn’t designed by an engineer who really knows what he’s doing, I don’t want to have open heart surgery from someone who hasn’t at least had someone look over their shoulder while they dissected a rat or something.

So how do we balance this? We need education. Education’s a wonderful thing, how do we balance the need for universities to be reformed at a minimum if not collapse and be replaced with the fact that we do need education, we do need people to be qualified.

Stephen: I think one thing, and I’m probably guilty of it myself, every now and then that when we talk about the decline of the universities to a large extent, we’re talking about the decline of Arts and Humanities departments, so the science departments are still doing great work.

They have been touched a little bit by the wokeness but large, good science is still being done and so you know absolutely I would encourage. I never discourage anyone from going to University, I loved going to University but certainly we want these higher education institutions because as you say the mathematics and the physics that you need to be able to build a decent Bridge or design an airplane, are not going to be learned at home school. Unless you happen to have big homes School fan but I still agree that’s right and so I would just distinguish between sort of the science departments and universities which are doing a lot of good work.

Although some of those departments are violated and corrupted by the insane sort of climate cult, that’s a bit of a problem, but overall they’re doing great stuff the stem stuff it’s really the humanities law departments. They’re the ones that are really just going nowhere. 

Topher: Before I pick up the second thread from your earlier answer, I want to pick up on, is your reference to councils and talking about that. But before we go there I want to talk about Humanities.

It appears to me that Humanities have actually become inhumanities and there’s a verse that often as as I watch the way the world is going on as I look at debates around euthanasia, abortion  and now even transgenderism. The verse that comes to me all the time is “those that hate me, love death” and there seems to have been an emergence in this sort of post good world where we we’ve rejected God. We’ve now embraced death as a solution. Are you old and depressed? We’ll just kill you it’ll be fine. Are you poor? We’ll just kill your kid, it’ll be fine. And even with transgenderism now, and this is only a relatively recent step in my mind, a post-operative transgender cannot have any kids that is the end of their bloodline and in a sense there that is a that is a celebration of death once again for their bloodline.

The humanities and our humanism has been turned into an anti-human Philosophy for sure.

Stephen: It reminds me of something Livy the great ancient Roman historian said he’s talking about the decline of the Roman Empire because it had become decadent, it became prosperous and so people would just becoming self and you know how he described the Romans? He said we’ve become in love with death. It’s not entirely clear what he means by that but there does seem to be this theme that when we detach our vision of what it is to be a human being from having an objective end that we are created for a purpose.

Then all that’s really left in terms of what should we be doing while we’re alive is basically pursuing pleasure. Now life in so many periods in our lives becomes very hard, becomes very painful and if life is all just about pursuing pleasure and just pursuing happiness rather than pursuing God’s glory then in those moments in life where you feel much more pain than pleasure, it’s understandable that someone would say, “well guess what life is no longer worth living” and I think there’s actually a connection that when we disconnect our concept of what it is to be a human being, what should we be doing, from glorifying God and you disconnect it from that, it naturally just becomes, I exist just to be happy and to experience pleasure and all all lives go through periods of pain and so it’s quite natural for a lot of people just to say well life’s not worth it and not only is my life not worth it but in actual fact I shouldn’t bring up other people into such a horrible world. it actually becomes detached from God which becomes anti-humanism. Livy saw something very similar in the first century BC. 

Topher: You’ve given me yet another thing I have to look up and read. Last question I want to back to your comment on councils because this is something I’m hearing, it’s just popping up all over the place, local politics and local government is not something that I heard talked much about when I was a teenager, when I was in my 20s. I’ve been a political commentator for 15 years, in the last two years I’ve heard more about local councils than I have in the entire rest of my life. What’s happening? Why are so many people going local councils? That’s where the fight is.

Stephen: Basically over the last 30 years everyone’s just been looking at a camera or at the state government so what’s happened is in that period of time a lot of people on the far left side of politics have just been getting walkthroughs going into local councils and it’s actually not ridiculously difficult to get elected into local Council it’s pretty easy. So over the last 30 years what has happened is basically a lot of greens and a lot of radical leftists have gone into local councils and they’ve started passing all sorts of laws and things regarding zoning regarding environmental rules, crazy things regarding, Australia Day for example.

There actually is a really serious battle to be fought at the local Council level and the great thing about that is that a local council is nowhere near as difficult to get on to as state and federal and local Council affects sort of your immediate everyday life much more directly than a lot of state and federal politics. If your local Council for example is debating whether or not to honour Australia Day, again that’s not something coming from Canberra or from state government, that’s coming from your local Council and you can actually have big quick wins by getting involved in local Council politics and over time getting the radical left out and getting people with some common sense and actually some love for this country not withstanding.

We are all we have all been very critical of this country over the last few years but at the end of the day we would all rather live here than pretty much most any other countries in the world. It has still got a lot going for it this country even though it has badly let us down over the last 3 years. Local Council, there’s a serious fight to be had there and it’s probably more low hanging fruit there than anywhere else.

Topher: I do agree there is definitely a fight to be had and Australia is definitely worth fighting for. I’ve been very critical of Australia as well and I think with very valid reason. But the reason why is because we have so much potential. Just imagine if Australia just kept getting better, we’re already among the best countries in the world, but there’s a sense that we’ve peaked. Let’s not settle, and let’s turn that around. Thank you so much for for this chat, I’ve really enjoyed it. Just on the local councils, they used to be about rubbish and foot paths and keeping the parks clean. My favourite recent example of the absurdity of local councils is Morland city council down in Melbourne holding a vote on a resolution for a ceasefire in the Middle East and I can just imagine the leaders of Hamas and the leaders of Israel were sitting on that live stream with baited breath waiting to see what was going to happen in this vote from the Morland city council. 

Stephen: That’s right, that’s exactly the kind of stuff that I’m talking about and it can actually all be ended by people taking a an interest in local Council but that’s exactly the kind of rubbish local councils having foreign policies could you imagine anything stupider than that? 

You can watch this episode of The Aussie Wire News here


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